Planes, Trains and Automobiles

Oh, we’re putting Neal in Mind? I missed that.

Start/Stop changes the order of Objective and Subjective Premise Element:

  • Start -> Obj to Subj
  • Stop -> Subj to Obj

“get out of your way” is Be-er in Action (Do-er in Decision would be same)


Yeah. Neal has the bad attitude. When you think of all of Del’s stuff through the whole movie, it comes from his being homeless and without a family (Universe).

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Looking at Neal’s signpost order… how is the first signpost Memory?

Signpost 1: MEMORY - ???
Signpost 2: PRECONSCIOUS - Exploding at Del, and others
Signpost 3: SUBCONSCIOUS - Appealing to his own good nature
Signpost 4: CONSCIOUS - Realizing the current state of affairs

Well, he does forget his gloves. :smile: That’s actually a good catch. Memory would feel stronger for me in the fourth signpost when he’s on the train remembering his family and then Del.

Maybe we should discuss the story driver.

Maybe that deliberation by the boss that makes him late is a hint at a decision driver?

When people think of Memory, they always default to remembering or forgetting. I’ve found suppression to be more indicative of this viewpoint. Basically, bottling it all in (Kevin Bacon scene)


Ahhhh… So basically everything in the first act is that, right?

  • Waiting to speak up about the ridiculous boss
  • Kevin’s Bacon stealing his car
  • Tripping over the trunk and internalizing it
    (Though… he does explode and go after the Cab with Del in it, right?)
  • But then it continues… he tries to brush off the first interaction with Del which about remembering where he saw him. But more to the point–he’s suppressing how upset he was about it all.
  • He doesn’t say anything to either of the people on the plane who are sleeping on him…

I wish Suppression was more prominent in the definition of Memory, because you’re totally right–the default is to go to Memories or Forgetting.

Also, the more I look at Del, I really like Repulsion a lot more than Impulsive Responses. Yes he did a few impulsive things, but the real meat of it is that they were repulsive.

  • The socks on the plane
  • The disgusting bathroom
  • the noises in bed
  • hands between two pillows
  • socks in the sink
    etc. etc.

So, he’s bottling everything up, then he’s blowing up, then he starts opening up and feeling, and he’s finally more aware.

Sounds like the movie I saw.


That totally removed a roadblock I’ve had in outlining something. Thanks, Jim!

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I think it’s funny that a summary of Jim’s work at Narrative First is included in the film.

“And by the way, you know, when you’re telling these little stories? Here’s a good idea - have a POINT. It makes it SO much more interesting for the listener!” :joy:


LOLOL - I never noticed that…but YES!

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Looks like we all feel good about where we ended up. In the spirit of the season, thanks @JohnDusenberry and @jhull for joining me. Like Planes, Trains and Automobiles it was a fun road with a lot of learning. :slight_smile:


Thinking of Memory-ing as a process… Would you say suppression is an example of Memory in the sense that instead of responding to something, or dealing with something, one instead commits the incident to memory? More like it’s a form of memorization? Internalizing something as response?

Remembering, Memorizing, Forgetting or Suppressing something.

I don’t want to step on Jim’s toes, but when he said memory is like suppression, it clicked for me as “mentally filing something away”.

Like putting it away in the safe instead of dealing with it directly.


Yeah, that’s exactly what I meant! Filing it away in your mind instead of somehow dealing with it in another way.

It’s a problem/process of Mind, right? So it’s committing it to that knowledge area vs. impulsively responding to it, or the thing drudging up something from your subconscious, or just thinking about the thing.


Totally! Then, as your vault starts filling up with things you aren’t dealing with, it will start spilling out into one of the other three. Pretty cool way to think of the act progressions. :smile:


“Six bucks and my right nut says” the area it spills out into is always in the direction of the Z, N, U, etc. pattern for that Throughline.

S1: Suppressing everything that comes his way, until…
S2: Exploding at Del at the hotel, Exploding at the ticket agent, until…
… etc.

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For sure. I want to watch some more MC Mind movies now and see where that Memory beat lands and how it plays out.

I know Train To Busan has the same MC Signpost order. Also about a Dad who works too much. Just with more zombies.

It’s cool how well that’s clicked for me.

Memory-ing is the process of filing and retrieving. So many more sources of conflict when you see that it’s a two way street.


I would wager that if you asked 1,000 people who saw the movie, “What is the plot goal of the movie?” they would all answer, “getting home for Thanksgiving.”

In Dramatica’s structure, where (if anywhere) is “getting home for Thanksgiving”? Is it a non-Dramatica “apparent goal”?

Does getting home vs not getting home affect the failure/success of the storyform? Or any other part of the storyform? Would the storyform be the same if, say, Neal had learned what is important but had Thanksgiving dinner with Del in a diner far from Neal’s home & family?

4 posts were split to a new topic: Difference between Conscious and Consider