It wouldn’t surprise me if The Last of Us had a similar storyform to Fury Road, just with an Outcome of Failure… Change, Stop, Do-er, Linear, Action, Optionlock, Failure, Good(/Bad?), Physics, Obtaining, Self-Interest, Avoidance… or Change, Stop, Do-er, Linear, Action, Optionlock, Failure, Good(/Bad?), Universe, Future, Delay, Avoidance… with Joel being the Main Character and Ellie being the Influence Character… but that’s my immediate impression.
I just did a youtube search for “last of us all cutscenes” and got some videos that are over 2 hours long. And what happens between the cutscenes is rather important, I believe. The problem with video games in general is that they take much longer to get through than most movies. The short length of movies is (as far as I know) the reason why the User Group Analyses are about films (and sometimes TV Pilots), and not novels and such.
Other than that, I wouldn’t mind trying to analyze certain video game stories, and not just The Last of Us. Though I imagine most would fall under the usual “OS Domain Physics, MC Domain Universe” template.
Yeah, I totally get why most people stay away from exploring longer form storytelling in general, but nevertheless, it’s nice to see someone else taking an interest in game stories.
I haven’t explored it deeply either, but I agree with most of your options, except I personally see Joel as remaining steadfast and Ellie changing, and I’m leaning more towards a judgement bad ending. I may be wrong of course, and am eager to figure out this storyform either way, as I’m quite sure it has one. Shall we start a new topic to discuss this in greater detail?
On a side note, what other game stories do you feel are worth exploring? I think Uncharted 4: A Thief’s End, from the same writer, has a great storyform as well.
EDIT: Also, Everybody’s Gone To The Rapture might be an interesting story to explore. I think it has OS Domain Universe, MC Domain Physics. Other ideas: Silent Hill 2, Final Fantasy IX, X, XII
I was mostly thinking of various narrative games. Mass Effect, Metal Gear Solid, Final Fantasy VII-XIII, Visual Novels (e.g. Fate/Stay Night, Steins;Gate, Katawa Shoujo, …)
I’m not very familiar with the Uncharted stories. But Silent Hill 2 would definitely be interesting.
I don’t know if I have the time to delve too deeply into anything, but I’m sure the mods won’t have a problem with a new thread, especially since we’d stop hogging this one.
In that case, let’s just keep this in view for now, as I’m also not sure it’s something I’m up to tackling at the moment, also taking into account my inexperience. Let’s wait and see if anyone else is interested before we visit this in detail.
I’ve always felt this was the most focused of all the Silent Hill narratives, and definitely the best of the series in many ways. Developers of future entries tried to replicate its success, but I think most would agree that it remains unmatched. Perhaps it’s because of a functioning storyform.
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I was mostly thinking of various narrative games. Mass Effect, Metal Gear Solid, Final Fantasy VII-XIII, Visual Novels (e.g. Fate/Stay Night, Steins;Gate, Katawa Shoujo, …)
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I’m not certain the Mass Effect series has a storyform. Perhaps some of the DLC, like Citadel, or Lair of the Shadow Broker.
I suspect MGS 1 and 3 might have some pretty…solid structures.
About the FF series, I feel Final Fantasy X is the strongest, structure wise, followed by XII, then IX (my personal favourite), and then VII. I admit I haven’t played VI till the end.
‘Fate’ Route of Fate/Stay Night seems like it has potential, structure wise. So does Steins;Gate, though I haven’t played it, only watched. Can’t say about Katawa Shoujo, though it does look…interesting.
I imagine there might be a number of SCUMM-style point-and-click adventure games that have a storyform, as they tend to be more plot-centric. I played Gemini Rue a couple of years ago and it was definitely working with Memory as an MC Concern.
Undertale definitely has throughlines going on, but at the same time it plays so much with meta-narrative and shifting perspectives that it kind of undermines itself.
Oh wow, I hadn’t thought to try analyzing any of the MGS series. That’d be a trip. I can at least say assuredly that MGS3 is an Outcome:Success and Judgment:Bad story.
I’m honestly not too familiar with the franchise. I thought that maybe each individual game might have one or two storyforms, depending on your choices?
I’m most familiar with Final Fantasy X, and I agree that it probably has the strongest story form.[quote=“Sean, post:4, topic:674”]
‘Fate’ Route of Fate/Stay Night seems like it has potential, structure wise. So does Steins;Gate, though I haven’t played it, only watched. Can’t say about Katawa Shoujo, though it does look…interesting.
[/quote] Steins;Gate is great. I’ve seen the Anime and only skimmed over the visual novel, but as far as I know, the visual novel is only more detailed in the route the Anime takes. Who Main Character and Influence Character are is pretty clear, I think, but I don’t know if their throughlines are developed enough? And I’m worried that the real story doesn’t actually start until Episode 13 or so, where Goal, Stakes and Limit are established.
Have you heard about Narcissu? It clearly has the subjective throughlines, though I’m not sure how challenging the Influence Character is, let alone how strong the overall story might be.
I find Katawa Shoujo interesting on a meta-level. It is fascinating to me how it even came to exist. Something to keep in mind: each route was written by a different author. So the quality is rather inconsistent. And while I would not call any of these routes ‘great’ by any means, they are all way better than you would expect. Rin and Hanako’s route especially.
While each route would have its own storyform, I think only one or two be something close to a complete story. Most of them don’t have a clear Overall story, and I have trouble finding any story limit. In addition, how well defined the Main Character is depends on the route as well. Again, Rin and Hanako’s route are probably the strongest in this respect, followed by Lilly and Emi, and lastly Shizune.
… Yeah, I’ve read through this thing recently. Unfortunately, like many Visual Novels, it takes a while to complete a route, 4-9 hours depending on how fast you read and such. Although its wiki describes the routes in enough detail that one might be able to determine the storyform from that? I tried, but I couldn’t really decide.
In this case I think looking at the three/four play styles (genocide, no-mercy, ‘normal’, true/pacifist) individually would lead to better results. I could imagine the pacifist route having its throughlines like this: OS Situation (Monsters are stuck underground and want to get out), MC Manipulation (dealing with monsters through persuasion of some kind), IC Activities (monsters consistently attack you), RS Fixed Attitude (humans/monsters are evil), with MC Resolve Steadfast and IC Resolve Change.
So, here are the games I’m most familiar with / wouldn’t have to replay/rewatch to try and figure out a storyform: The Last of Us, The Walking Dead, Katawa Shoujo, Steins;Gate, Undertale (Pacifist), Final Fantasy X, Silent Hill 2
Haven’t played any of those, but I’ll look into it. Seems interesting.
I tried playing Undertale, but I found the bullet hell mechanics and the overly self referential/meta/postmodern nature of the plot rather off-putting, not that I am opposed to such things in general. I feel something like Adventure Time strikes a better balance. However, I intend to give Undertale another shot sometime.
MGS3 is my favourite of the series, and I feel it has the strongest storyform. I agree with that outcome and judgement.
Having played through the series, multiple times for 1 and 2, I’m not quite convinced it’s presenting an argument of any sort, beyond the two DLC I mentioned. It seems to me that Shepard is more of a blank slate type of MC, and though there are perhaps some relationship subplots with the companion characters, it doesn’t add up to any overall message. I’d welcome an alternative perspective, of course.
To be honest, I’m not that big a fan of Steins;Gate, as I tend to stay away from time travel/alternate universe centric stories in general, though there are exceptions I have enjoyed, like Madoka and The Girl Who Leapt Through Time. It was however, a fun watch, and I think it has one of the strongest story forms I’ve seen in anime, which tends to be rather heavy handed in general. I think it was certainly an interesting narrative choice to begin the ‘real story’ at Episode 13, and to keep it ‘slice of life’ until then.
I’m hesitant to attempt visual novels in general because of the time investment required. I tried Fate and found it underwhelming. I think the strength of the Nasuverse lies more in its creative worldbuilding than its storytelling.
I’ve heard good things about the writing in Katawa Shoujo, which is intriguing, considering its outlandish premise. Perhaps I’ll give it a shot sometime. I’ll look into Narcissu as well.
Some other anime titles I’ve enjoyed and would be interested in exploring - Shin Sekai Yori, Psycho Pass, Texhnolyze, Moribito, Shouwa Genroku, certain Mushishi episodes, Terror in Resonance, Phantom
Games mentioned previously I would be interested in exploring - The Last of Us, Telltale Games, Uncharted 4, Everybody’s Gone To The Rapture, Silent Hill 2, Final Fantasy Series, Metal Gear Solid 3
However, I would be more comfortable with at least 3 perspectives involved in an analysis.
Hi Sean. Recently finished FFX HD and also watched the entire video of XII. You’re right on the storyform. The Characters however are another matter. For me, XII had better realised characters. They were not your standard archetypes, and this was what made me realise that I now prefer XII. Glad to see some gamers in the house.
@Sean 's last post was in July, so I don’t know he would be still around to participate. I agree with him that three perspectives are a good minimum for an analysis. So unless he or someone else joins us, I don’t know if we should get this started at this moment. If we did, I would suggest starting with The Last of Us, since it annoys me less than Uncharted 4.
The four throughlines of The Last of Us are pretty clear, though we get to see things from the IC’s POV quite a bit. I would recommend anyone to watch this Literary Analysis of the game, even if you disagree with some of the interpretations. It puts some focus on the relationship between Joel and Ellie, which is nice for a Dramatica Analysis.
